Hi JTW! God does love us all and that is very important!!! But, it is not enough. God loves Osama Binladen as much as he loves me but it hasn't helped Osama much.

Let me give an illustration... Suppose a husband and wife come to me for counseling. I can see the husband has a real problem. I say to him, your wife loves you so don't do that. Will he stop because his wife loves him? NO! But, if he loves his wife, for her sake he will be willing to do work on his issues. It is not her love that motivates him but his love for her that motivates him to change.

So it is with us. God's love toward us, causes us to love him. Then it is that love for him that helps us to change. Or in the words of Christ "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

It is important to know that God loves us for without that, nothing else is posssible. But the next step is just as important... that we love God! And in particular, that we love the person of Jesus Christ. For without Christ, no one can come to God.

Blessings!

Mark

Servant:

I shall wait...on the other thread.

Would you mind explaining there though, the basis for respectful disbelief that the Important Point is that God Loves Us All?

jtw

I'd say Mark pretty well addressed the issue of "God loves all of us" Don't think I could have done much better than that.

He does love all of us!! But we must respond in the manner that He expects.

For instance...when I used to work in the emergency medical field (I was a paramedic for 10 years), I used to go on ambulance runs to houses where the call was a domestic abuse incident.

Almost always, it was the husband slapping around his wife...open fisted, close fisted...I've seen them both and more!

Funny thing is, almost every husband I dealt with stated that he loved his wife. Now, I'm thinking, 'that ain't no way to show your love there, chief!'

But let's look at the wife's point of view...do you think that she thought her husband was displaying love? I don't think so! Does this mean that she no longer loves him? No. She still loves the man! Does that mean that she'll stay married to him? Probably not, right? She could still love him but know that, by his actions, she cannot remain married to him.

Now, what if the wife told the husband, "You can show me you love me by stopping the beatings". Then, if he stops, couldn't we assume that he was showing his love for her by obeying her request to stop the beatings?

Do you see where I'm going? Love is a two way street. God will always be in His lane. He is the ultimate perfect driver. As for us, God has told us what He expects from us in order for us to stay in our lane. So, are we going to forge our own path or listen to His directions?

Okay...gotta run again!! See ya's in a bit!



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By His grace-



And when I stand, let me stand on the promise,
that you will pull me through,
And when I fall, let me fall on the grace,
that first brought me to you.
-Rich Mullins.

[This message has been edited by Servant (edited 04-04-2002).]

Servant:

I think the analogy is dead on, but you've got your roles reversed. I see a God that doesn't let my buddy in because of minor details, like the husband that beats his wife--DO WHAT I DEMAND OR I'LL BEAT YOU!!!=BELIEVE IN JESUS OR ROT IN HELL!!!

Whereas, if the husband were to take that gentle woman into his arms, whisper sweet nothings in her ear, and accept her for who she was right there on the spot, not demanding that she believe anything other than that she was loved, I think that woman would 9/10 times hang around to learn more about the man. That is my God, that's the God I see exemplified by Jesus in the Bible. One who loves all, is tender, gentle, and kind with all. And certainly not acting like a drunken brute.

Okay, I couldn't find a place to put the smilies. So I shall end with them.

jtw

Joe-

I'm sorry Joe. I can't seem to find a smile either. I understand where you're coming from. I too used to decide who God was, what He was like, based on nothing but my human observations, experiences and the conclusions I drew from them.

Then, like David Hunt and Mark have pointed out, God intervened in my life in a supernatural way.

What can I say? I believe the Bible can be trusted...and some of the reasons I have brought up here in this forum. The fulfilled prophecies, the textual reliability, the trustworthiness of the authors, the perfect order it describes, and the stories within reflect an almighty loving God, a just God, a fair God, and a God who offers forgiveness to us, his rebellious children, through His Son, Jesus Christ.

I have faith in him. I have faith in Jesus. I have faith that what Jesus said was God speaking to me. That is my faith. That is who I am.

You are absolutely right when you say that God loves everyone. But not everyone loves God. No teaching, sharing, loving or caring in our world is going to change a heart that relies on itself. Only prayer and the power of the Holy Spirit will make a difference in that heart.

If I can answer any questions you might have about the Bible, the Christian faith or anything else, don't hesitate to ask. But I think I'll refrain from taking the "debate" route..a direction I sense we might be heading. Not by any fault of yours...just my spidey-sense acting up again. I know me...and there was a time when I would pursue this...but no longer. I can only present the information...and leave the rest to God.

You're a good guy Joe and I am really enjoying your presence here in the forums. I pray that you will continue to seek a deep, loving and recipricol relationship with the one and only true God...the God of the Bible...the God of the Trinity...The God that sacraficed His Son and then raised Him from the dead...the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

In the meantime...I'll think I'll try out that funky salad you suggested

------------------
By His grace-



And when I stand, let me stand on the promise,
that you will pull me through,
And when I fall, let me fall on the grace,
that first brought me to you.
-Rich Mullins.

JTW, if you were drowning and someone threw you a lifeline, and said "grab the line and be saved"! Would you see them as "It's my way or the highway buster. Die or live but do it my way!"?

God is throwing the Lifeline to people, yet they trample under feet the very blood of His precious Son. Rejecting him over and over. He came to save the world, but the world does not receive Him. In the end, he watches as they drown in their sea of sin.

"God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked."

Grace,

Mark

I think more people love God than you think. God is capable of many things, including revealation to others that I may not be privy to. So if John Doe believes in God, as long as it's not some totally wacked out concept I've got a brother. And I'm not going to tell him that he rots in hell because he doesn't squeeze into the box of my beliefs-Hey, he may have an inside track with the Big Guy I don't.

I'll let it go, and continue to hang around.

Oh by the way did you like the salad??

jtw

JTW, is that friend you always speak of still alive? I want to know if I could include him in my prayers.

Haven't gotten around to that "designer" salad...this project I'm working on is using up all my creative juices




------------------
By His grace-



And when I stand, let me stand on the promise,
that you will pull me through,
And when I fall, let me fall on the grace,
that first brought me to you.
-Rich Mullins.

If I may interect..JTW...no one should submit to your beliefs..but rather to what scripture says...if your beliefs don't line up with the word of God..then no one should except them...but if we don't have foundatial truths out of the word of God..then how can we say we know The Living Word??

just a thought...you know me..I like to think

Laterz & Love,
WHC

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GOD IS LOVE--it's just that simple
NO COMPROMISE....Live God Loud...you have just read the post of an
ex-satanist...God is Good!!!!!!!!

To compromise the truth is to live the lie.