Hi Mercy,

Actually, that's exactly what I meant! LukeFromAedificatio is my elder brother. We live in different cities, so we don't get to see each other that often, but as often as we can we do. It's no coincidence that we share a lot of the same views!

Love,
Susan

By the way, Luke pointed out to me that some of my wording in my previous post (the one where I mention that I'm up visiting Luke and Mag) might have been worded a little strongly, so that it might come across as sarcastic; not what I meant at all! I changed it; hope now it comes over in the spirit intended!

Love,
Susan

Susan,

Didn't think anything of it. Once again, no need to apologize that I can see. Actually, I think you guys (you and Luke) have the ability to be a pretty good tagteam! This is the first time I've seen a brother/sister duo online, but that's awesome!

I guess that means that I should be careful how I challenge one of you because the other might bite back... You're both great to discuss things with, so I'm thinking this tidbit of information is a great addition to the conversation.

Have a good night,
Mercy

Hoss:

Ya got it. The God I worship is soooooooo biiiiigggggg that I don't get to define parameters to Box Him in, but rather just get the opportunity to recognize that which is reflective of His Nature.

So, is it Christ like when my biker buddy helps someone else? You bet!! That's Christian. He didn't declare IN THE NAME OF CHRIST LET ME ASSIST YOU!! (Who does that except someone looking for recognition of the act from a target audience as something that is Christian?) But Christ like i.e. Christian it is nonetheless.


jtw

JTW,

Not a bad suggestion, but the "assisting" that you refer to can be done by ANYONE, my friend. Mormons (Latter Day Saints) will be the first to "assist" someone who is struggling. The Amish are very good people as well who lean toward a very humble lifestyle that doesn't claim personal recognition. If your friend "assists" someone, it does not necessarily mean that his act of kindness was Christian... it was just the right thing to do. Once again, goodness and kindness is not evidence of a man's salvation. His or her claim to faith being grounded in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ... THAT is Christian. Not the act of kindness.

Mercy

MB:

Ya know, I really care not what someone says. I care what they do. Actions, my friend, actions speak louder than words. I find my friend to more Christ like, i.e., Christian, than many self-proclaimed Christians. I define a Christian not in what they mouth to me. It's not hard to pick up the Christian lingo and parrot it back. It is extremely difficult to use the golden rule as a tool for life and to implement that on a daily basis.

To elevate form over substance I thought was the problem that the Pharisees had. Seems to me how you describe the motivation for the action here is the form. The substance is the action. Course just one sinners opinion.

jtw

MB:

Praisewarrior put up a post that succinctly states what I was getting at. The message taught today: It ain't what ya know, it's what ya show.

jtw

JTW,

You can make up whatever you god (small case "g") you want my friend. That doesn't make him God (Capital "g").

My concept of God comes from the Bible. Yours does not. You say you are catholic. You defend catholicism. The last time I checked, the catholic faith was based on the Bible.

Yet you reject the things you don't like about the Bible- for example, preferring to believe that your works contribute in some way to your salvation- that somehow the work Jesus did on the cross was not sufficient.

That God is soo big that he'll just accept everyone into heaven as long as they try to be nice to others- maybe help a buddy move from one apartment to the next? Or perhaps help paint the old lady's house at the corner? Or maybe even drive a person who has had too much to drink home from the bar?

Yeah...that's it.

But on what basis do you come to this conclusion? Certainly not the Bible for I have presented scripture after scripture that clearly teaches the opposite of this!

That salvation is a gift given to us by the grace of God through FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

And so people become enemies of God when they are controlled by their human nature; for they do not obey God's law, and in fact they cannot obey it. Those who obey their human nature cannot please God.
(Rom 8:7-8)

In the past you were spiritually dead because of your disobedience and sins. At that time you followed the world's evil way; you obeyed the ruler of the spiritual powers in space, the spirit who now controls the people who disobey God. Actually all of us were like them and lived according to our natural desires, doing whatever suited the wishes of our own bodies and minds. In our natural condition we, like everyone else, were destined to suffer God's anger. But God's mercy is so abundant, and his love for us is so great, that while we were spiritually dead in our disobedience he brought us to life with Christ. It is by God's grace that you have been saved.
(Eph 2:1-5)

For it is by God's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God's gift, so that no one can boast about it.
(Eph 2:8)

But when the kindness and love of God our Savior was revealed, he saved us. It was not because of any good deeds that we ourselves had done, but because of his own mercy that he saved us, through the Holy Spirit, who gives us new birth and new life by washing us. God poured out the Holy Spirit abundantly on us through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that by his grace we might be put right with God and come into possession of the eternal life we hope for.
(T.i.t.u.s 3:4-7)

Some, however, did receive him and believed in him; so he gave them the right to become God's children.(John 1:12)

As Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the desert, in the same way the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.(John 3:14-16)

Some, however, did receive him and believed in him; so he gave them the right to become God's children.
(John 1:12)

For there is one God, and there is one who brings God and human beings together, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself to redeem the whole human race. That was the proof at the right time that God wants everyone to be saved...
(1Ti 2:5-6)

These are truths JTW. Not made up by me but given to us by God Himself for our understanding of how His plan works.

You say you don't get to define God's parameters? I diasgree, for you have defined him as a God who cares nothing about justice...abour fairness. You have defined him as a God who would send His Son to die a horrible death on a cross for no reason at all. You have defined Him as uncaring (for what caring Father would volunteer His Son to die in such a way without reason?)

This is not the God of the Bible. It is not the God I serve. And most importantly, it is not the God who offers salvation my friend.

Without Jesus Christ, there is not salvation. God is big, but He will never contradict Himself.

God loves us, yes. But those who reject Jesus Christ will suffer eternal punishment. That's what the Bible says. I believe God.

Instead of trying to disprove the Bible, I would encourage you to study the Bible more. In this way, God will draw closer and with Him, bring understanding and wisdom.


------------------
By His grace-



And when I stand, let me stand on the promise,
that you will pull me through,
And when I fall, let me fall on the grace,
that first brought me to you.
-Rich Mullins.

Hoss:

My friend, I know the going has been rough as of late. Sometimes the doggone path has unexpected potholes. Good thing He is there for us, wouldn't ya agree? So let me say to you, from my heart, and from one man to another, if nobody has told ya that they love ya today, I would like to cuz I do. (Don't ya dare be gettin' any dancin' ideas in that big ol' head of yours, hear!)

You know that I don't use the words often. I've spoken of them here only about others that I've know off-board and they can be counted on my fingers and toes. I don't end my posts with the words, cuz it wouldn't be true. I mean what I say, and try to say what I mean. I hope you know that, and I hope that brings the smileys back to your posts. Because of that I feel I can type freely with you.

What you posted was unfair, and inaccurate. You said:

"My concept of God comes from the Bible. Yours does not."

That's entirely untrue. I ask that you retract that. My concept of God does in fact come from the Bible. However, it also comes from outside the Bible. The two are not mutually exclusive and in fact are complimentary. My views on Genesis do not mean that I devalue Genesis because I don't read it like a science book. To the contrary.


You go on:

"You say you are catholic. You defend catholicism. The last time I checked, the catholic faith was based on the Bible.
Yet you reject the things you don't like about the Bible- for example, preferring to believe that your works contribute in some way to your salvation-"


Hoss, maybe you should talk to Luke about this issue cuz he can probably address it better than I can and with the caring that I often lack. Catholicism has FAITH AND WORKS as its tenet. I've posted in Bible Studies on this before. That position is supported in the Bible, comes from the Bible, and jives with the common sense that the Good Lord gave us all. I adhere generally to this position, but deviate at different points. A thread on LOTR is really not the place to address this.


You continue:

"That God is soo big that he'll just accept everyone into heaven as long as they try to be nice to others- maybe...Or maybe even drive a person who has had too much to drink home from the bar?

Yeah...that's it."

What is that about???????? Is that the Christ like attitude exemplified from your salvation????? The Spirit moving in you when you posted that???????? I choose not to respond to that today.

Finally you finish with this:

"Instead of trying to disprove the Bible, I would encourage you to study the Bible more. In this way, God will draw closer and with Him, bring understanding and wisdom."

How exactly do you know how much Bible study I've done and not done?? Before you tell me what to do, I would encourage you to ask me what I am doing. FYI-I'm currently reading a rather lengthy study on James--ya know that "epistle of straw" from Martin Luther's perspective, yet part of the New Testament even the KJV.

See Hoss, I don't have to believe everything just like you. Because I hold some different beliefs, beliefs that are generally accepted outside of fundamentalist circles, does not mean we don't have the same God. How I choose to address my God though, that personal God that cares about me is up to me. How you choose to address your God, that personal God that cares about you is up to you as well. We don't have to have identical perceptions in all respects.

LIVE AND LET LIVE. God will sort it out in the end.

jtw

Hoss:

Something about out of the mouths of babes that strikes a chord. The following comes from Bubbles:

"HISS!" cries the cat as the dog approaches
"Grr..." growls the dog at the cat
The cat lunges at the throat of the dog...
And the dog shakes the cat from side 2 side
Can't they see how crazy they look?
Can't they settle down, and eat a book?

......

If they just set aside their differences
And found some common ground
Who knows what they could do
With the peace they found
Perhaps start a brand new peace thing
Think of all the happiness it would bring
Of course the cat thinks "But it's a dog!"
And the dog might think "Can I eat a hog?"
The cat could do the thinking
The dog could get the peace around
If they only found some common ground

(I'm thinking I'm the cat, cuz I can do the thinking, and I'm speculatin' you could eat a hog. )

Smile my friend.

jtw