MB:

Be careful!!! There is nothing incompatible about a belief in the Big Bang, and evolution, the ice age, and being a Christian. Just to set ya straight.

jtw

JTW,

I had a feeling you'd pipe up at that one. lol... not that it means we are in agreement, but I thought it might spark your attitude. We'll leave that one for the "Private Forums" huh?

For the benefit of Spirit, I just spent a while searching online for anything that J.R.R. Tolkien might have said that would imply he was a Christian. The ONLY thing that I found was that during his time at Oxford, he interacted with a Christian group of men who discussed literature. That was it. It could be understood that he might have been religious, spiritual, or even godly in character, but where, oh where, is Tolkien's credit to Christ? Wouldn't that identify him as a Christian writer?

Somehow, I just don't see the correlation between associating Tolkien with Christian literature and associating J.K Rowling (Harry Potter) with that of satanic literature. Oddly enough, in order to write out "The Lord of the Rings," Tolkien admits having had to study witchcraft, wizardry, and ancient mythology. Anyone see a difference?

Mercy

Quote by J.K Rowling ("Harry Potter" author):

"The idea that we could have a child who escapes from the confines of the adult world and goes somewhere where he has power, both literally and metaphorically, really appealed to me."

Interesting. Wasn't that the sincere desire of George Lucas when he came up with "The Force" for Luke Skywalker? If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Lucas didn't intend for the story to fascinate adults. It was for the sole purpose of fascinating his own children. Where were the picket signs then?

MB:

You succeeded. There isn't one except in the language that some Christians use to characterize the two. It's all in the lingo for some.


jtw

If someone were to ACTUALLY read about the author of Harry Potter, they might actually find words like this to be quite contradictory to the controversy. This is a report and interview by CNN:

"More than 7 million copies have been sold in the United States alone, where Rowling has been credited by some with drawing millions of children into the pleasures of book-reading. The books have been translated into more than 25 languages.

And what of the controversy raised by some parents who worry the tale of a young wizard promotes witchcraft and the occult? Her answer is direct and unforgiving. "I absolutely did not start writing these books to encourage any child into witchcraft," she says with an uncomfortable chuckle. "I'm laughing slightly because to me, the idea is absurd."

"I have met thousands of children now, and not even one time has a child come up to me and said, 'Ms. Rowling, I'm so glad I've read these books because now I want to be a witch.' They see it for what it is," she emphasized. "It is a fantasy world and they understand that completely.

"I don't believe in magic, either," she said."

Interesting again. Didn't Spirit say,

"Harry potters author based her book on facts she reserched from satanism and witchcraft.She claims this movie to be based on true facts."?

I'm not sure, but from what I gather, Ms.Rowling was ALSO creating fantasy with no intent toward reality. Further study would show that most of the names she used in her books were formed out of her own imagination. Certain cities she used in Harry Potter were named after cities that she had enjoyed in parts of Europe.

Seeing as Rowling was a single mother at the time she wrote the first Harry Potter book, I'm guessing that she didn't have thousands of hours to dive into the research of satanism and withcraft. As quoted by her, "
It is a fantasy world." That's it.

Seems the most typical argument against Harry Potter stems from an initial "gut feeling" rather than true study. But none of this yet addresses the issue of how "Lord of the Rings" has become a Christian book.

Mercy

Well! Looks like you 2 have had quite the afternoon! I'm trying to decide if I really want to jump into the middle of this one or not...

actually, I think there was a discussion on this before. I am currently searching for it! Meanwhile, to fill you in on where I'm coming from, I believe Harry Potter is horrible (sorry to the fans out there!) & I've read the entire LotR trilogy, saw the movie 4 times in the theater & once since my bro bought the DVD.

Hey there Sound,

I pretty much stand to agree with your perspective on Harry Potter. I fell asleep during the middle of it. Had to watch it again another time just to see what I had missed. Didn't feel like I missed anything.

If anything, the story said this to me:

A boy is born into a family of wizards. While he is capable of becoming a typical wizard (negative), he chooses to use his "gift" toward the atypical (positive). He encourages the other children to turn the negative atmosphere around them into a positive one.

Apparantely, all the children who have since read Harry Potter and met the author have never said to her, "I want to be a witch!" If anything, they tell her, "I love to read! Thanks!"

I saw it as childish fantasy. Kind of reminded me of "The Neverending Story" from the 80s. Remarkable story of magic, sorcery, and imaginary places. I have to admit from personal perspective, Harry Potter wasn't anything compared to The Neverending Story. But they were both fantasies.

I'm just at a loss for words as to the controversy. Where does the line get drawn? Didn't "Alladin" suggest that there are ACTUAL genies who grant wishes? Didn't "Peter Pan" suggest that there are ACTUAL pirates who could come in and steal you from your bedroom during the night? Even watching the movie "Hook" fascinated me into the world of Never-never-land. But I don't ACTUALLY believe that I'm going to go there.

*Sigh*

Mercy

Found it! I guess it wasn't actually a real discussion - just Musichick, Phlo & I had a brief review in the middle of a different thread. Here's what I wrote there, anyway! I've never actually seen or read Harry Potter besides skimming through a book quickly at Pamida one day. However, from what I hear, the "good vs. evil" is not nearly as clear as people claim it is - the kids are taught that lying for the right reasons is good, half the theme is about revenge, and no matter what the kid does, as long as the end result is positive, that he can get away with it! (disobedience, etc) Where's the good vs. evil there? It's about a hero and some villians - yeah, the villians are evil, but people don't notice that the hero's not so great, either.

Anyway, here's what I wrote back in April (http://www.wuzupgod.com/bulletinboard/Forum10/HTML/000019.html)
[QUOTE]
I've heard a LOT of controversy over LotR, so for those of you who DO have objections to it, sorry! Here's some of the reasons why I like it:
The good-versus evil plot is very clear (unlike Harry Potter!) There's even the cool elements of how the ring is addicting and can not be used for good, no matter who tries to wield it. It has a "power" of it's own, (which is kind of wierd in spots, I have wondered about it a little) but it shows how the evil overpowers the carrier. Sounds more than a little like sin, doesn't it??

The scene where Gandolf fights the Balrog always sends chills down my spine... Gandolf announces, "I am one of the Istari, a keeper of the light. You shall not pass!" The way they did it reminds me so much of how WE as Christians have the power to say almost the same thing to demons - and Satan himself - "I am a follower of Christ. You shall not stay here!" And the powers of this dark world have to flee!!

There's so much more I could get into... the self-sacrifices made, almost complete betrayal that ends repentence & heroism, temptations, the trust that develops amoung the followship (even when some were natural enemies), and always, always, the striving to do what's right, because it's right. While it's not an allegory, like the Chronicles of Narnia, the books have such strong Christian principles running through them that the director & script writers couldn't help including them in the movie without even realising it!!

It's clean, no swearing, no misusing God's name, the most romantic moment (which wasn't in the book) is a statement of true love, sealed with a kiss (no hint of anything more). There is a lot of violence, but no gore (I wouldn't recommend it for little kids, since it's really intense & there are moments when orcs lose heads, but they don't dwell on it). and yes, there are 2 more movies coming out, and they won't make sense if you don't see the first one!

Sound:

Some of the OT heros ain't that hot either, and use trickery to achieve their ends.

jtw

MB - the Harry Potter website contains links that kids can follow to actual witch/wiccan websites. I have heard of kids who wanted to follow those paths due to the books. I have also heard negative reactions to the LotR series, but not as many. In my mind, there's no question that Potter is wrong; whether Rings is, also, is more of the question. I've seen more positive things about this series than have heard negative, so, for now at least, I'm supportive (obviously ).

Would love to join in this discussion more, but have company. Maybe later...